What Is Exegesis?
[00:00:00] Cody: Hi, thank you for tuning in to the Logic of God podcast. I'm Cody.
[00:00:13] Gina: I'm Gina.
[00:00:14] Cody: And I'm Ben. If you're returning, thank you for coming back. And if you are a new guest, welcome.
[00:00:32] That brings us to another part of hermeneutics, which is this big fancy word exegesis, which is Jesus. Jesus, but the idea is behind that is basically removing all your presuppositions. You're supposed to come to scripture, basically a new, try to remove reading yourself into the Bible as much as possible.
[00:00:56] It's nobody. Can 100 percent do that because everybody has ideals and presuppositions that they come with, but trying to remove as much as you can, and Gina mentioned earlier, like knowing your emotional stance and where you are in your emotions and how that can affect you reading different scriptures is important when doing a thorough Bible study.
[00:01:20] Gina: I have a question. If I read my Bible in full one time, is that good enough?
[00:01:25] Cody: Oh, that's a great question. No, there's so many different layers to the Bible, and one of the things that got me into reading the Bible more, I was super young, I was at this Promise Keepers conference. I don't know if you remember.
[00:01:39] It's focus
[00:01:40] Gina: on the family. Yeah, it's like a
[00:01:41] Cody: focus on the family. It's like a, it's a big men's group and I was super young, super bored. I hated it. But then there's this one guy who came out on stage and he was talking about secrets in plain sight and he talked in this, I'm going to show you the secrets in plain sight type of thing.
[00:01:59] Like he was mocking it for the most part, like he wasn't serious, but his whole point and one of the things that got me to question and get into that further study is from Adam to Noah is if you look at the definitions of the genealogy, the names that are given from Adam to Noah, spell out or the meanings of the names have their own little gospel story in them.
[00:02:24] And the Bible has so many of these layers to it that you could. Study it once and think you've learned all you could from it and then just happen to read it again and the Holy Spirit Oh, how did you miss this? I've been trying to tell you this for years So repetitive study and getting further into it is always good
[00:02:44] Ben: Well, and there are things that you're definitely going to catch even years later while reading the Bible Like I did not realize how funny Jesus was For literally I only started really understanding that maybe five years ago and keep in mind I'm 32 years old and I've been a Christian my entire life So that's a solid 27 years of not catching the fact that Jesus is not I think a lot of Christians and a lot of people outside the church have an image of This guy who has his arms outstretched, floating two feet off the ground, and light shining off of him all the time.
[00:03:17] And every time anyone does anything around him, he's always answering calmly, and And he said he's Verily I speak to thee. Yeah,
[00:03:23] Gina: he speaks in Shakespearean.
[00:03:25] Ben: And really, when you start You start doing more study and you're really seeking the Lord in what he's written. You start to see that he's being really funny.
[00:03:34] And he's, sometimes he's even toying with people. And all of these stories suddenly start to become so much more interesting. I'll be honest, these stories didn't interest me very much when I was a kid. I knew them all and I'd heard them a thousand times and I thought, okay, we're learning about Jesus feeding the 5, 000 or the 4, 000 or whatever.
[00:03:51] Because he fed a lot of people at different points, and he did the same thing more than once. And it's like, okay, that's, uh, fun. But I didn't get it. And there are the little details that start popping out when you read it more, and when you're genuinely looking at it with fresh eyes, and you're trying to understand what's going on and why.
[00:04:06] And you start to see that the disciples weren't stupid. I always thought when I was a kid the disciples were stupid. They're always, they always seem to not know what's going on. No, you wouldn't know what's going on! It's like Jesus has been standing out there, Teaching for 20 hours and the disciples are tired and they want to go home But all of these people are out here and they're trying to come up with an excuse to go home So they come to jesus and they're like, okay jesus.
[00:04:29] It's really late and all these people need to go and eat So can we wrap it up and he's oh, well you give them something to eat What You you see how many people are here it would take I don't know like a thousand days wages just to feed these people You Oh, well, what do you have? We got five bread and two fish.
[00:04:52] Oh, okay. We'll tell everyone to get in groups. Do you realize how funny a situation that is? It's hilarious.
[00:04:59] Cody: And the fact that he knew what was going to happen, but didn't elaborate to the disciples and just let it happen and didn't rob them of their amazement of the situation.
[00:05:10] Ben: And think of how often we've all been in a situation where we're tired, we're done, we want to go home, we don't want to do any more of this.
[00:05:17] And there's an opportunity for God to work an amazing miracle in your life. Just sitting there and all you have to do is just go, just go a little bit further. Listen for what God wants as opposed to what you want because the disciples wanted to go home. And Christ wanted to show them something better than that.
[00:05:33] And he sent them all home. Remember there are 12 baskets filled with the leftovers from that. One for each disciple. Odds are, they were all hungry and they wanted to go home, and they didn't think they were gonna have enough time or money to do anything. And they got enough food to fill a basket by the end of it.
[00:05:51] Christ sent them home with a gift basket, isn't that considerate?
[00:05:54] Cody: Gosh, what an
[00:05:55] Ben: edible arrangement. So, yeah. There are so
[00:06:00] Gina: many precious layers in there. You get them more and more.
[00:06:04] Ben: And you are not going to get them in just one reading.
[00:06:07] Gina: No, the first time I read Song of Solomon, I was like, what is this trash?
[00:06:11] And I was very frustrated and I was like, he better never say I look like a goat. And then
[00:06:17] Ben: Legs like cedar trees, that one.
[00:06:21] Gina: But then I read it last summer was like the first time I read it and actually was able to appreciate it. So obviously I wasn't ready until almost two years ago now, but
[00:06:32] Cody: yeah, but it's been one of the, your life first comes, I know,
[00:06:36] Gina: I know.
[00:06:36] So it's a, it's just interesting. I like asking that question just because I think some people are like, well, I read it and now I'm reading
[00:06:43] Cody: other things. Yeah. It's like, I've done my time. Yeah. We talked a little bit about outside materials, but what about people who say that they get their scripture from stuff like the Chosen?
[00:06:55] They get their biblical teaching.
[00:06:57] Gina: You mean the prophet Nicodemus and how, I'm sorry.
[00:07:02] Cody: That was, someone came up to her talking about the Chosen and the prophet Nicodemus.
[00:07:07] Gina: And how Mary wasn't ready to see Jesus and So God healed Mary.
[00:07:12] Cody: What about stuff like that?
[00:07:14] Ben: There's a lot of material out there to try to make the Bible and Biblical stories more digestible.
[00:07:22] In doing so, they, I wouldn't say they corrupt it, but they change the stories in such a way to try to make it so that people will enjoy it more, and whenever the writers are taking the stories and tweaking them for the big screen, they think, okay, so I'm going to put my own spin on it, or they think, this isn't going to translate very well into video format, so I'm going to change this, or they think, well, there's Sodom and Gomorrah, actually the literal, Wiping out of an entire city is too boring, so I'm going to have two angels come out with swords and kill a bunch of people first, and then Allot and his family will leave.
[00:07:52] For those of you who are getting your introduction to biblical stories based on television and stuff, it very rarely is the full picture. Even when it's portrayed correctly, it's very rarely the full picture, and it's very rarely portrayed correctly. There have been some attempts to really portray the stories as well as possible.
[00:08:12] I think The Passion of the Christ actually did a pretty good job. Not everything was perfect in that film, and obviously not everything will be, but they tried really hard to make that a solid representation.
[00:08:23] Cody: They did pretty good with that one, but again, it still pales in comparison to the Bible.
[00:08:28] Ben: In the end, the depth that you will get, oddly enough, is not by seeing it, it is by reading it, and by studying it.
[00:08:34] I think you can get, it can be an appetizer, You can see it and think, wow, this is really nice. But if all you're doing is you're trying to find a substitute for the Bible, you won't find it. You can't just hope that TV is going to teach you the basics and then that's it. And if you're treating this like a chore, and I can understand that because there was a time in my life where I viewed it as that, please don't view this as a chore.
[00:08:55] I know it's tough. You're hearing all these long words, hermeneutics and exegesis. It's a bit like a relationship with a person. If you're treating getting to know the person as a chore, It's going to be a chore, and it's not going to be fun for either one of you. You need to find something in the Bible that interests you.
[00:09:11] You need to find something that speaks to you. And from there, you can start diving deeper. And you can find more details about the things that you like, and from there, you should be able to build out and expand into other areas that you may find interesting. It's not that you have to find everything in the Bible interesting from the get go.
[00:09:27] There are going to be some things that you think are more interesting than others. So I think probably a good idea to start is to find the thing. By reading the Bible, find the thing that you find interesting. Find the first question that really sticks out to you. And that may be the Lord calling you to try to teach you something.
[00:09:41] to bring you closer. And then from there, you should be able to find something else. It'll lead to another little dot. That'll lead to another little dot. Another point. And you should be able to eventually appreciate the Bible as a whole more than you did before.
[00:09:55] Cody: What about you? What do you think of digital?
[00:09:57] Gina: Satan masquerades as an angel of light.
[00:10:00] Ben: You're a little more harsh than I was. I do agree with you. I wouldn't
[00:10:04] Cody: I'm not, not a huge fan of The Chosen, Gina and I actually watched it to test it to see how biblically accurate it was. That was our objective.
[00:10:13] Ben: I'll be honest. I didn't watch it. I just, I wasn't interested.
[00:10:17] I heard about them treating Matthew with the special deeds.
[00:10:20] Cody: Even with the Chosen, I know a lot of people who I think are pretty smart and wise people, but they'll watch the History Channel documentaries on the Bible, which are by
[00:10:31] Gina: They're trying to disprove it.
[00:10:33] Cody: They're either that or they're these, oh gosh, what is it?
[00:10:37] It's the Jesus something is the group.
[00:10:39] Gina: Latter day Saints?
[00:10:40] Cody: No,
[00:10:41] Ben: it's the Jesus something. I know what you're talking about. I can't think
[00:10:44] Cody: of it. It's like a group of scholars, but they're all like super liberal scholars. These are the
[00:10:50] Gina: people who thought that they could pull DNA off the shroud of Torrin and figure out that Jesus wasn't the right whatever.
[00:10:58] Ben: Turns out God is not the Father.
[00:11:01] Cody: These are the people who see the stuff like the Gospel of Thomas. And want to put that in the Bible, even though there's so many reasons why it doesn't. Yeah.
[00:11:12] Gina: Ultimately, my opinion on media interpretation of Jesus or scripture is just that they want it to be exciting. And we've come to a point in our society where our entertainment is Game of Thrones, watching pregnant people get stabbed to death and sexually assaulted.
[00:11:30] And so. You have that as entertainment. You have horror films and thrillers and psychological movies, and that becomes our entertainment. And so Jesus has to compete with that. And instead of glorifying God and giving Jesus and God and the Holy Spirit, this authority, they end up representing Satan as this all knowing, all powerful manifesting being that has way more power and control over the world than what is actually true.
[00:11:58] And. I just think it furthers Satan's agenda of making us live in fear and making us have these doubts about who Jesus is and how his humanity really was, and I don't know. I just, I really don't agree with using media for that. I don't think that it has really powerful evangelistic capabilities, and that's just because of the people that I know who have seen it.
[00:12:19] And to them, it's just another thing that they think makes them a Christian while they collect their crystals and do the things that they excuse that actually don't make them a Christian. So many people are like, Oh, I'm a Christian. I watched The Chosen. Oh, I'm a Christian. I read the Bible once and they don't go to church.
[00:12:36] They have no relationship with God. They don't pray. Or if they do, it's to a crystal or a shrine or a seance or a card. And it has absolutely nothing to do with the Bible. And if they actually had read the Bible, they would know that those things are in opposition of the Lord. That's my rant. I don't like it.
[00:12:53] But if you want to watch something gruesome, go watch the passion because at least it'll teach you something.
[00:12:59] Cody: Yeah. If that's what you have to have gruesome vulgar,
[00:13:03] Gina: I'm of my life versus Philippians four, eight, and I'm very easily triggered by gore. I have some friends that post pictures of aborted babies on their social media.
[00:13:14] And I deleted my social media because of it. And it's just something that I have a very hard time with. I don't like virtue signaling, and I also don't like gore. And so when it comes to TV shows like Game of Thrones and what was the other one? Outlander. Like I lost my ever loving mind when I watched those things.
[00:13:34] Ben: Oh yeah, I stopped watching Outlander as well.
[00:13:36] Gina: It's not, acceptable to me. It's not pure. It's not lovely. It's not honorable. It's not true. So why would I spend time looking at it? I have a very hard time with that type of entertainment. I know that has nothing to do with hermeneutics, but you asked.
[00:13:53] Cody: No, I think it's a day that is good.
[00:13:57] Jesus seminar. That's who it is. That,
[00:13:59] Ben: yeah. They're the terrible ones. I knew it was some standard Christian word to follow up with Jesus.
[00:14:04] Gina: If you saw it on TV, whatever channel, if you saw it on TV, go question it. Pick it apart.
[00:14:11] Cody: If you heard it from a pulpit, if you heard it on a podcast, if you heard it anywhere online.
[00:14:16] Besides the Bible. Question it, test it. That's what we're supposed to do.
[00:14:20] Ben: That actually does bring up a very good question. You're talking about hermeneutics, you're talking about the different processes for it. Is it that we should be going verse by verse as we read the Bible? And we stop, and we try to find a hermeneutical resource.
[00:14:34] Something that'll tell us everything that there is to know about the verse, the original wording, what the words meant, do we do a word study of those words? How far should you go, and how slowly should you be going, would you say, in doing a study of the Bible?
[00:14:50] Cody: It depends on what your objective is. If you want to study covenant theology or something like that and look at the covenant, Like, there's the Adamic covenant, so Adam had a covenant that God made him, Noah had a covenant, Abraham had a covenant, everybody knows Abrahams, but not a lot of people get the covenant theology in all of these other different areas, so you can study that and just either, you know, from having read through it before, notate where something like this could happen, or there's different resources you could get for that, even a Google search of where these start and what that is, or what verses contain the covenant in them, and then study those and then go verse by verse into that.
[00:15:35] If you're just doing a general Bible study and just trying to gain more knowledge, I think a verse by verse approach is good. How I usually do it personally is if I'm doing a book study. So like we're in first Thessalonians, I'll read through the book all the way through and highlight or write down different areas that piqued my interest and not necessarily something that, nothing specific, just stuff that piqued my interest.
[00:16:03] And then I'll go into a verse by verse study and go through it and do the same thing, just more in depth, and then I'll go into it and look into those certain areas that piqued my interest and why that piqued my interest and if it really meant what I thought it meant or if it's something else. So there's word studies into that, but just getting into things, that's a lot for your first sit down Bible study as a newer Christian, just getting into the study format of it.
[00:16:31] Gina: If you think you've arrived, read it again.
[00:16:35] Ben: We've already said there is a lot of depth to the Bible and it's so much depth that you're not going to get it Reading one or two or three or fifty times or a hundred times How much effort should you go into trying to grasp the material as you're going through it?
[00:16:50] Gina: Pick me If you are dating somebody, or married to somebody, or pursuing a relationship with somebody, and they're all you can think about, and you want to talk to them for 12 hours a day, and you care about their opinion, and you want to know if they like you, and love you, and care about you, but you don't feel the same way about God, then you're not doing it enough.
[00:17:15] That's what we're supposed to do. That's how we're supposed to feel about God. If you're not getting to know Him that well, and desiring Him that much, and it really is a chore, then you're not understanding the motivation for this relationship with the Lord, and that's ultimately why you should be studying your Bible.
[00:17:33] For me, I'm horrible at it, and that's why I acknowledge this, is like, There are so many people in my life that need me. My kids, my husband, my job, people at church, my volunteers, all of that. And I get pulled in a million different directions, and sometimes I forget to look up. And I've taken all this time chasing all these people and making sure that they feel satisfied, but I haven't focused that attention on my Heavenly Father.
[00:17:58] And that's when I know that I'm seriously lacking in my study time. So if you're not being sacrificial, meaning that you're sacrificing your own personal gratification in pursuit of knowledge of the Lord, then you're doing it wrong. And I think we're all doing it wrong.
[00:18:18] Cody: No, we can't be doing it right. I like that too, because that reminded me, and you might have heard this too, but I hear people who will say that they don't do deep Bible study because that's not them.
[00:18:32] It's too deep
[00:18:33] Gina: for me.
[00:18:33] Cody: Well, it's too deep for me. And it's, You say
[00:18:36] Gina: it's above their pay grade.
[00:18:38] Cody: I'm being the hands and feet or something, or I'm serving at church, and that's good enough. I'm a good Christian because I'm doing that, and I don't think enough people realize that in depth Bible study is what we're called to do as Christians.
[00:18:51] We're called to love God with all of our mind, and if we're not trying to study His word that He gave us to get to know Him better, we are not loving God with all of our mind. We're not pursuing Him with all of our mind. And that's not to mention a lot of other verses, and I think it's Peter 2. it's where the, the word apologetics comes from.
[00:19:16] We're supposed to have a defense for everything in love, but How are you going to have a defense for what you believe if you're not studying what you believe and why you believe it? And we're also supposed to be approved workmen and not ashamed of what we're doing and what we know. So it is a biblical calling to study your Bible.
[00:19:36] And if you're
[00:19:37] Gina: a woman, like, you don't have to be a theologian. You don't have to be a pastor. You want to have a defense? I've heard so many women. I just have faith. I believe. He's not Santa Claus. He wants you to be a warrior in his army. Women can be warriors, not worriers, warriors.
[00:19:57] Ben: Clever way to play you.
[00:19:58] Gina: No, I'm serious. I'm, I hate the whole, like, I don't have time to get into it, but.
[00:20:04] Cody: You hear that a lot, right? So
[00:20:05] Gina: many female pastors I've heard preach and they say, and I just don't have time. Like why? Why not follow that up afterwards? Do a podcast. Do a reel on your Instagram and explain what you're talking about.
[00:20:17] Because if you stand there, you, you'd steal your own credibility when you say, I don't have time to explain it. And then you never go back to it. Like.
[00:20:26] Cody: You just got to believe this. I'm not going to explain it. That's what I get from what you're saying. Maybe I'm wrong.
[00:20:32] Gina: It's not even about authority. It's my The, the way that I came to understand this is irrelevant because I said so.
[00:20:40] You're not really teaching anybody else how to know these things if you're just expecting them to be spoon fed.
[00:20:46] Ben: Well, I think a lot of men and women approach, not just theology and biblical study, but our beliefs. From the position of, we have feelings and opinions about something and then we work backwards to explain them.
[00:21:03] I think there are a lot of people who are Christians and who are not very well read who feel, Well, I really want to have sex with this woman who I'm in a relationship with. So because I feel it, and I am a Christian, clearly God is okay with me doing it. It's working backwards from the feeling, and providing the justification.
[00:21:24] Not looking for what the Bible says, and testing what they feel against it. Because that is an excruciatingly difficult thing. And it goes back to what we talked about before with the interpretation of the Bible. It's that we go into it with our own baggage, with our own feelings. And it is incredibly difficult to die to ourselves and to look at the Bible with those fresh eyes, like a child, and see it for what it is.
[00:21:51] Because we want it to affirm what we think and what we feel. And sometimes it does. I don't think that it's a 100 percent awful strategy to start from the point of you feel something. If you feel righteous indignation at an injustice that's happening in your life, Oftentimes, there is a reason behind it.
[00:22:07] In fact, there's always a reason behind the things that you feel. So it's not wrong to start from the position of, Okay, I feel something. But don't go, Because I feel something, it is right. You start, I feel something, Why? Sometimes it's from a position of righteous indignation. Sometimes it's from a position of weakness.
[00:22:27] And if it's a position of weakness, it's being highlighted for you to address.
[00:22:31] Gina: And I always ask myself, when I've had strong emotions, it's, How is God going to use this? It's not what can I do with this? It's how is God going to use this? Because we've been through some painful stuff And we've had a lot of really desert seasons in our lives and in our marriage and I've had to learn How to ask that question.
[00:22:53] Ben: I was gonna go in a bit deeper to that. I think we've all dealt with loss And that dealing with it as a Christian, I think, is a very difficult thing. And it really does deserve its own episode. Sufficient to say, we've all encountered points in our life where we've struggled. And we have a strong and powerful emotion.
[00:23:13] That is always an opportunity for the Lord to interact with you one way or another. And so it's best to seek that out. I think that the final question here, what are some resources that you would suggest? I
[00:23:24] Gina: was hoping that you would ask.
[00:23:26] Ben: Well, it's a reasonable question because there's so much information and we piled on these big words.
[00:23:33] And these big concepts and the idea of, okay, so looking at individual words and the word studies and the context for these words and whether it's literal or figurative or poetic or apocalyptic. So what are some resources that a person can use to start a study of the Bible?
[00:23:51] Gina: Seminary.
[00:23:53] Ben: Everyone go to seminary.
[00:23:54] Do it now. No.
[00:23:57] Gina: Sorry.
[00:23:58] Cody: Do you want to go first or are you leaving it a seminary?
[00:24:03] Gina: Marry somebody who makes you think? I don't know.
[00:24:07] Ben: Everybody marry Cody.
[00:24:08] Gina: No. Mine.
[00:24:10] Ben: Ladies, he's become a Mormon.
[00:24:14] Gina: Stop.
[00:24:17] Ben: Oh dear.
[00:24:19] Gina: Absolutely not.
[00:24:20] Ben: Gina forbade it.
[00:24:22] Cody: I guess we're moving to Utah.
[00:24:26] Gina: I don't know how to respond right now. I'm not happy.
[00:24:29] Cody: Of course not. What have I done? Way to go, Ben.
[00:24:33] Ben: I'm sorry. Gina, have you found anything in doing your own version of Bible study that's helped? Aside from coding. We understand he's a good resource. Yes.
[00:24:42] Gina: Okay, I like Blue Letter Bible. Their app is horrible.
[00:24:45] Cody: On the phone. It's much better on the computer though.
[00:24:48] Gina: Okay. Well, I've used the browser on my phone and that's worked better. But yeah, their app was like very, very good. I also really like the Bible Project. It's not my favorite for like super in depth. What I like about it is that it gives you this overview that ties things together in a description that I don't always come to the same conclusion when I'm done reading.
[00:25:11] And so it helps challenge me a little bit. There's been certain books that I've read after watching or before even sometimes watching video about the Bible project that they, they do. And then, and it's also really entertaining. And then I'll come back to it and be like, Oh, I didn't see it that way. And then I'll go back and study it again.
[00:25:28] And I'll get something totally new out of it. And they also have a really good podcast. I like the concordance sometimes for word studies. I like that it tells me the pronunciation because I like language. I'm trying to think. Logo software is really good. Kodi uses that a lot more in depth than I have, but I like that for word study as well.
[00:25:48] And also it gives you a lot of really good commentaries. So those are like the most reliable to me. You can Google and there's all kinds of websites, but you just don't know like where the real opinion and sources like just a generic got questions and stuff like, yeah, they're going to answer questions, but it's going to be heavily opinionated and biased.
[00:26:09] And so you may find information and it may make sense to you in the moment, but it might not actually be the truth. So. You know, you're just going to have to tread carefully with those websites when you're Googling. But the biggest thing that I think people think is a resource and it's not, is like Googling, what does the Bible say about?
[00:26:28] And that's something that I know is super common. I see it a lot with my students and I see it a lot in like my women's groups. And like, I just want to caution you against that. There are some really good books. book resources that you can get that will break down certain subjects for you in the Bible.
[00:26:45] So if you're curious what the Bible says about certain things, you can use those resources. But if you're just Googling willy nilly, you're going to be able to justify anything that you think, say, or do with random websites. that are giving you incorrect information instead of going to the source. And that's something that I started out doing as a Christian and I highly do not recommend it because you're going to end up very confused and resentful and bitter about some of the things that you thought you knew that you don't actually know.
[00:27:14] So that would be my spiel. Right you, Ben.
[00:27:17] Ben: Well, for me, like I said at the beginning, the way that I approach biblical study is not through a hermeneutical process. And really, I should be trying more and be more intentional about studying the Bible that way because there is a lot of benefit to a controlled exploration of the Bible rather than para dropping at random points and finding what you find there.
[00:27:38] But typically what I do, and I think this is helpful for you to do on your own time just for fun, because it will lead you to a lot of different very good information, is there are a handful of people that I've found are very reliable, and whether you agree with them on everything or not, and I guarantee you, you won't, and you shouldn't, they will give you a whole lot of very good information and a lot of expansive knowledge on a lot of different subjects, both Uh, from a foundational aspect and even going deeper into, to different areas of the Bible, talking about the different words and their meanings.
[00:28:09] I don't know that all of them have done a lot of word studies, but there's also some of that too. I listened to a lot of Pastor Mike Winger. I listen to a lot of Pastor Dan Plord, mostly his stuff on Revelation. He has done some stuff on Genesis I haven't checked out. Listened to a lot of Dr. David Wood.
[00:28:26] He does a lot of stuff on Islam and its relation to Christianity, but he also does a lot of deep dives into Christianity itself. And with the recent death of his son, he actually went back and covered a portion of Genesis. which is where you can learn a lot of very interesting stuff I've never actually learned, specifically about the story of Abraham sacrificing Isaac.
[00:28:47] Yeah, Dr. David Wood, obviously Nabeel Qureshi. He's also very good. He gives a lot of great foundational information from the perspective of someone who is hostile to Christianity. And so that applies both to atheism, And to Judaism and to Islam, a lot of the objections that he had. And so that will give you a lot of foundational knowledge as well.
[00:29:06] Also Ravi Zacharias, unfortunately, he's a leader who did not finish well.
[00:29:10] Gina: We talked about that.
[00:29:11] Ben: Yes. And so you need to understand that going in. I'm not going to suggest. him to you just for you to find out that he was a very flawed man who ended absolutely horrendously and betrayed his faith and his family and did things that I don't know could be forgiven.
[00:29:25] But throughout his life, he did do a lot of valuable things in his ministry. He taught things that I do believe are genuinely true and the lessons that he taught, if you can get around the fact that he finished horribly. are valuable, and you can learn a lot. A lot of the, the reasonings that we put forward, even the name of this podcast, it's reflected in a book of his, Logic of God.
[00:29:46] We didn't do that intentionally, it just happened, it just happened that way, unfortunately. Uh, that's not an extensive list, obviously there's more people like C. S. Lewis, and even some of the letters that Tolkien wrote, I think are very valuable. So, those are just scraping the top. There are more scholastic people, like, uh, Dr.
[00:30:03] Stephen Boyd is a Hebraist who's done a lot of very good work on analyzing the Old Testament. Some of his lectures on Genesis specifically I've really enjoyed, but that's more of a college type lecture, and I don't know many people would really enjoy that. When you, you follow these guys through their material on even YouTube, and I hesitate to use YouTube as a reference, but that's where a lot of these guys put up their material.
[00:30:25] When you start watching these guys videos, they end up referencing to other people who have solid material, like Pints with Aquinas, or Testify, or Inspiring Philosophy. And all of those guys have material. Again, you're not going to agree with everything. Pints with Aquinas is a Catholic, and there's some of his material, obviously, I don't agree with, because I'm not Catholic.
[00:30:43] But he does have a lot of positions that he teaches on pornography, and he's written a book on pornography. And the man knows his stuff, and he's a genuine, dedicated Christian, and I appreciate the work that he does. But yeah, I do think that there is immense value in a controlled, intentional study of the Bible.
[00:31:02] I do also think that it is good to just take in material as well, and just let it come in and see what speaks to you. I don't think that's the method you should use for exploring the Bible, but it is an interesting way to just let stuff come and then see what catches your eye, and see what the stuff that you're passionate about, at the very least in this season in your life.
[00:31:21] Cody,
[00:31:22] Cody: what would you recommend?
[00:31:23] Ben: You thought you were going
[00:31:24] Cody: to escape? Ah, there's so much. I'm gonna go into a list, but ultimately, whatever gets you reading your physical Bible is the best thing for you.
[00:31:34] Gina: But I read a book that quoted the Bible.
[00:31:36] Cody: That's not good enough.
[00:31:37] Gina: But I listened to a person who claimed they were channeling Jesus.
[00:31:41] Cody: That's satanic. Did he do it through a crystal? An orb.
[00:31:47] Gina: Sorry, I can't.
[00:31:49] Cody: No, but whatever gets you reading your Bible is a good resource. people I like or recommend. So for newer Christians, the Bible project is definitely one I recommend to everybody, especially if you're getting into a Bible study, it helps you get that overview of the book before you start going into a more verse by verse study.
[00:32:10] Some of the themes in that book that starting out are very hard to pick up on. Tim Mackey knows Biblical Hebrew, has studied that for many years, so he's a pretty reliable source, albeit he's from a very liberal college that he learned Biblical Hebrew from, but he's got some good theology and I trust him for the most part.
[00:32:30] Another guy who is borderline young Christian to higher level academic stuff as well is Dr. Michael Heiser. I like him a lot just because he gets you thinking. And I don't agree with everything that he says like anybody else that I would list, but one of his favorite sayings is read the Bible like a novel, question everything in it.
[00:32:51] And I think that gets people to read it more often if they're questioning what they're reading and actually knowing that what it says is true. Gina mentioned Blue Letter Bible. Love that one as a free resource. Logos is to get the full capabilities. Very expensive. If I wasn't in school for theology, I would not have that.
[00:33:14] If money's not an issue, Logos is phenomenal. There is free versions of it where you can get the side by side interlinear and different translations and stuff. So it's good too for that. Tons of authors. I like William Lane Craig. He's got his own. Website. Frank Turek. I can't remember. Is his a reasonable faith?
[00:33:35] He also has a podcast. I think it's I Don't Have the Faith to be an Atheist. I know that's his book. Is that his podcast too? I know. I can't remember because Norman Geisler also has one and they might be partnered up because I think a couple of those guys were partnered up, but reasonable faith is a good one.
[00:33:52] Got questions was brought up. I'm not a huge fan of got questions because everybody on there is a. Very strict Calvinist, so you'll get this, and Dispensationalist. Those are
[00:34:04] Gina: some big words, sir.
[00:34:05] Cody: Two very big Christianese words, but. Well, to be fair, they don't have a choice. Yeah, but not to say, not to say either one of those is bad, but.
[00:34:15] You only get the got questions answers. You only get from one viewpoint of the Bible, not all of them. And they try to represent other sides, but they do a very poor job at it. So yeah, that's, I think pretty much all the resources I use. I want to throw out,
[00:34:30] Gina: I want to throw out one more unconventional resource, because I think it's all well and good to have like super formal and highly educated discussion and study, but Nate, I'll never forget our friend, Nate.
[00:34:46] If he's listening, we love you, Nate. He studies his Bible while listening to epic movie soundtrack music, and it helps him Get his head in the
[00:34:57] Cody: Yeah, specifically the Old Testament. The, uh, Old Testament fight scenes. Battles
[00:35:03] Gina: and war. And
[00:35:04] Cody: genealogies. He'll listen to that theatrical music. I don't know what it's
[00:35:08] Gina: But it really, I struggled when I was reading those first couple of books in the Bible.
[00:35:12] And it actually really helped. And it's something that I now tell my students to do. And they love. And so you don't always have to be inside the box. You can do things that are like wacky and it works for you and it helps you engage and it helps you stay focused. And your hermeneutical process might include the Lord of the Rings soundtrack.
[00:35:32] Cody: What is it? I think everybody who starts to plan, or they start a Bible in a year plan, like 80 percent of them stop in Leviticus, I think it is, so they don't even make it, what, that's three books in, and they don't even make it all the way through Leviticus. If you hit that wall, throw on that music.
[00:35:51] Gina: Yeah.
[00:35:51] Ben: I mean, a lot of them do it as a chore, and it is sad. And I think they do start out with the best of intentions. But Gina, I think you've actually brought up potentially the most valuable resource you will ever have in your life. And it's the people in your life. Yeah. They will not know everything. They will not know more than the early church fathers, or some of the greatest minds that Christianity has ever produced.
[00:36:13] But they're there. And you can bounce ideas off of them, and they can go on the journey with you. And sometimes all you really need, is a friend with you to go on the journey.
[00:36:23] Gina: Definitely. Thank you so much for taking the time to listen to our podcast today. If you liked what you heard, please feel free to subscribe and share and leave a positive review.
[00:36:35] And if you would like to connect with us on social media, you can do so on Instagram and Facebook at the logic of God. You can also send us an email at main dot the logic of God at gmail. com. Thanks again for listening. We hope you have a great day.
